Dr. Edwino: Hello, Bryan. 

Bryan: Hello, Dr. Edwino. Kamusta po? 

Dr. Edwino: Ok lang, ok lang ako. Hello Onggie!

Onggie: Kamusta po, Doc Edwino?

Dr. Edwino: Ok lang, ok lang.

Bryan: Dr. Edwino, so pinag uusapan na natin ngayon ang taxonomy, pero siguro to give us an overview po ng taxonomic process, can you tell us a little bit more about this field po kaya? 

Dr. Edwino: Well, umpisa siguro muna tayo doon sa nabanggit ni Onggie na tangisang bayawak. Hindi ko alam kung kailan ko na kwento kay Onggie ‘to pero parang matagal na rin, so the story is, this is based on a very old kwento or a legend, involving a bayawak, a monitor lizard.  This monitor lizard is trying to climb a very large tall tree, with very smooth bark, so as the bayawak starts climbing up this tree, it keeps on falling down back into the ground. Hindi pangkaraniwang puno ito. Palagi siyang nalalaglag. Hindi niya kayang akyatin ang puno na ito. Kaya itong bayawak – tumatangis, umiiyak. Kaya ang tawag dito, tangisang bayawak. Kawawa naman itong bayawak, ano. Hindi naman lahat ng puno hindi niya kayang akyatin. Ito lang ang tanging puno ng tangisang bayawak ang hindi niya kayang akyatin. Pero kuwento lang iyon, hindi natin nakikita. So mga legends yan. 

Yun naman na nabanggit kanina na mga rafflesia, meron kaming, describe ni kaibigang Dr. Perry Ong, very close friend namin yan and trusted colleague ni Onggie, nung sumali ako doon sakanyang lab sa UP Diliman noong 2015. Sabi ni Perry ang discovery ng rafflesia na ito sa Pantabangan ay, yung isang assistant niya,  nasipa yung isang pile ng mga dahon. Na-expose yung bulok na bulaklak. Malakas ang amoy nito at sabi pa ni Perry, ito ay “serendipitous” or once in a blue moon or once in a lifetime. So ang ginawa namin, we examined a living specimen in the wild, and in the laboratory to confirm is bago nga bang species ito or may pangalan na? So naconfirm namin na in fact this is a new species that we called rafflesia consueloae and indeed, it is the smallest among the giants sabi ni Perry. Kasi karaniwan dito sa rafflesia, they are very large flowers. ‘Yung sa kamag-anak nito sa Sumatra that’s called rafflesia arnoldii is the largest flower in the world reaching almost one meter wide. Napakalaki. So ito namang nadiscover namin sa Pantabangan is the smallest, we named it rafflesia consueloae, in honor of Mrs. Consuelo Lopez, siya ang lifelong partner of the industrialist Mr. Oscar Lopez, who also pursues by the way conservation, with his many projects in the energy sector. So itong rafflesia consueloae, pang-anim yan sa Pilipinas, sa Luzon pala, pang-labing tatlo sa buong Pilipinas, dati dadalawa lang yan. Noong nauso ang paghahanap ng mga ‘to, dumami hangang labing tatlo. ‘Yan ang storya ng umpisa ng ating kuwento, sa tangisang bayawak at sa rafflesia. 

Sir Onggie: Doc Edwino, balikan ko lang itong sa rafflesia, nabangit mo na pinangalan siya in honor of Mrs. Consuelo Lopez kaya rafflesia consueloae, napag-usapan namin kanina ni Bryan, some of the scientific names naman, come from the physical properties, or yung kinikuwento ni Bryan, from yung pseudogecko, from it’s behavior. Ano yung basis, where do we, ano yung basis ng pagpangalan natin? 

Dr. Edwino: Well, magandang tanong yan, Onggie. Yung pagpapangalan kasi, yung common names, iba yan. Anybody can give a plant a common name. But the scientific names, iba yan. It is regulated by the International Code of Nomenclature (ICN) of Algae, Fungi, and Plants. Very formal organization to ng mga botanists throughout the world. So, ang mga botanists they meet every six years, to discuss the rules. So between the six years, madami silang proposals – kailangan ganito, kailangan palitan ito. Matagal na ito nag-umpisa. Ang unang-una sinasabi ay sa pangalan ng halaman, kanina may binangit ka na yung pangalan ng snail – kita mo, tatlo yung pangalan mo. Pag halaman, dalawahan lang usually. Binary combination ang tawag. Meron tayong tinatawag na genus, for example rafflesia, ang merong tayong specific na epithet, for example consueloae. Meron tayong for example ‘yung nabanggit mo, begonia for the genus name and sumunod yung epithet, makuruyot. Sa hayop, dinidiretso nila hangang tatlo pero ang ibig-sabihin noong pangatlo, variety yon. Merong pagkakaiba ng konti. Ginagawa rin sa halaman yan pero merong dinudugsong na mga sub-species or variety. Parang ganyan yan. Pwede yan sa mga unique characters niya, ang ‘yung color ng bulaklak, anong common name doon sa lugar, anong klase yung lugar, gubat ba yan or malapit sa dagat o anong bansa, anong klaseng lupa o ano ang gamit ng mga natibo doon sa lugar. Maraming paraan para gawin ang pangalan. Pwede mo nga imbentohin ‘yan eh. The rules allow you to do that. Unethical lang ng konti ipangalan mo sa sarili mo, so somebody has to do that for you. I cannot name a plant after myself. Hindi naman sa bawal yan pero strictly speaking, it’s unethical so hindi ginagawa ‘yon. So, ganon ang kwento niyan. 

Bryan: So andaming ways rin to name the species, pero may finafollow rin tayo na standards. May international code tayo, yung International Code of Nomenclature (ICN). Very interesting itong naming ng species na nabangit niyo Doc Edwino. Yung difference sa nabanggit niyo na sa plants and sa animals naman, sometimes we tend to overlook rin yung importance and value nung iba. Sabi niyo nga sometimes, common na yung iba, tayo nalang nagpapangalan. We’re curious lang rin Doc Edwino sa work ninyo, for several decades being a taxonomist. On a personal level, ano ba ang thoughts niyo, ano ang importance ng pagpapangalan natin ng mga species sa society natin, sa ating mga sarili? Baka may insights po kayo tungkol sa mga ‘to. 

Dr. Edwino: Oo, maganda yan, Bryan. Ito nama ay, palagi ko sinasabi sa mga estudyante ko. So,  Meron sinulat si Carl Linnaeus — known as the ‘Father of Modern Taxonomy’ – we call him modern dahil merong nauna sakanyang grupo, sila Aristotle, sila Euclid, yung mga Greek philosophers. Ito ay sinulat niya sa kanyang libro na Clinica Botanic, in 1736. Of course he was actually quoting from Edward Coke who wrote this quotation in 1628, so medyo matagal na ito. Nearly 400 years na itong quotation. Pero babangitin natin sa Latin, sabi niya – ‘Nomina si nescis, perit et cognito rerum.’ Sabi niya, ang ibig sabihin ay ‘If you do not know the name, your knowledge of the thing perishes’. Kung walang pangalan, wala kang alam. Kasi pag alam natin ang tamang pangalan makakakuha tayo ng ibang information. Kasi, naalala mo, parang index card yan nung mga una. Ngayon, igoogle mo nalang ang mga pangalan, you get lots of information. It’s the key, so you can access more information about the name. Importante kasi na very precise yung pangalan, kasi kailangan natin maavoid ang ambiguities. Hindi pwedeng, ‘o, pwedeng pula, pink’  hindi pwedeng ganon. Ginagawa ‘yan so you can communicate effectively. Para malinaw ‘yung sinasabi natin. ‘Yung pangalan ng halaman na ginagamit mo, it will enable you to like i said earlier, derive further information. Yung quote na binanggit ko kanina, ang sabi niya, any halaman sa buong mundo ay pwede lang magkaroon ng isang pangalan, only one. Sa Borneo meron na before, meron din dito sa Pilipinas, sinabi niya it’s the same halaman, so hindi pwedeng ganon na magkaroon ng dalawang halaman. So merong tinatawag na Principle of Priority, kung sino yung unang nagbigay ng pangalan na tama, yun ang masusunod na pangalan. Remember, hindi lahat ng halaman ay nasa Pilipinas lamang. Meron rin ito elsewhere. 

Bryan: Sorry Doc Edwino, Principle of…? 

Dr. Edwino: Principle of Priority. Paunahan lang yan. So simple lang diba, it’s the simplest way to solve this issue. Ginagawa yan, pinagtiya-tiyagaan yan over time. Hindi naman na, “Teka lang, nadescribe na pala yan sa Borneo, meron rin pala niyan satin.” It will sort out eventually. Yung binigay natin na pangalan, it will sort out the name. That is why you have to be very careful. Siguraduhin muna natin na ito ay wala pa sa Borneo, wala pa sa Thailand. So ‘yun talaga ang tunay. It takes a lot. Kaya taxonomy is a Science, when you create a name, it’s a hypothesis. I say that this is the correct name, so subsequent scientist can disprove me. “Your hypothesis is wrong because this plant has been names as this previously.” So ganon. Puwede tayo i-correct. Science is based on cumulative knowledge. Pag napag-aralan natin, tinatabi ‘yung mali at vine-verify ang tama. 

Bryan: Doc Edwino, curious lang po ako about doon sa Principle of Priority. Baka po, mayroon bang case na halimbawa, nadescribe na siya sa other country tapos sinasabi nila na first dito, e nadescribe na natin siya, meron po bang ganon sa Philippines? May mga ganong dispute po ba?

Dr. Edwino: It eventually solves it out. The journals will not accept it. They know. Magiging ‘synonym’ andiyan parin sa literature pero it will become a synonym. Pero it’s not an accepted name. Hindi siya accepted name. It’s listed, merong mga halaman na mga libo-libo ang mga pangalan pero isa lang yan. There’s so many plants and sometimes, botanists also make mistakes. Meron pala sa Dinagat, meron pala sa ganito, that can happen. So sometimes, importante rin ‘yung experience mo na madami ka ng pinuntahan, marami ka nang nakita, nabasa. Malaking bagay ‘yon para hindi tayo magkamali. 

Sir Onggie: Doc, so ang ibig sabihin nito, yung matter of naming a particular plant, hindi lang ‘yon dahil ikaw ang nauna pagkatapos diretso na “Uy gagawan ko na ‘to ng pangalan.”

Dr. Edwino: Hinde. Kunwari, ikaw naman ang nauna, Onggie, pero merong kakulangan. Base sa rules, hindi tama ang pagkakagawa mo. Base sa rules before 2011, wala kang scientific, ah, wala kang Latin diagnosis. So, maraming requirements na kailangan mo sundin. Dati kasi, kailangan mo ipublish sa journal talaga yan, hindi mo pwede ipublish sa newspaper, hindi mo pwede ipublish sa internet. Ngayon pwede na ipublish sa internet basta meron siyang ISSN or ISBN. So, nagbabago rin kaya pinag-aawayan rin ‘yan every six years. Nagiging modern na. Wala na ngang requirement na Latin diagnosis eh. ‘Yung Latin diagnosis, sabi niyan, you compare it using Latin. Kasi, Latin is a dead language, very fixed yun. Hindi siya malabong usap, maliwanan ‘yun pag sinabi mong Latin. Yun talaga. Very precise. It’s the same language ever since.  

Hindi siya paunahan lang. There are many other regulations, kunware, nagdescribe ka wala kang sina-cite na type specimen. Kailangan, meron kang pinatuyong dahon o sanga na may bulaklak or dahon. Kailangan ‘yon. ‘Pag wala kang ganon, invalid ‘yung name mo. Yung mga dati na pangalan, ‘yun na ‘yung masusunod. So it’s not a simple thing as – “Publish ko, may internet, may website ako.” Hindi ganon. 

Bryan: Ito pong mga type specimen na ‘to, ito po ‘yung mga nilala-lodge sa mga herbarium po? 

Dr. Edwino: Herbarium, yes. Around the world. Millions na yan, around the world. 

Onggie: So hindi sya sapat na makadiskubre ka, makahanap ka. Kailangan bago mo siya mapangalanan, magsusuri ka rin.

Dr. Edwino: Yes, magsusuri ka talaga. ‘Yung nadiscover sa Dilag, medyo matagal-tagal na ‘yon. Pero siyempre it takes time to study the specimen. Look at literature. Look at old collections from the site, if there are any. It’s not quick. Taxonomists are not magicians. It takes time to gather evidence. 

Bryan: Doc Edwino, sa experience niyo po, ano ‘yung pinaka mabilis na na-accept siya, at ‘yung pinaka-matagal na napublish?

Dr. Edwino: Well, madami. Meron diyan, meron pa ‘yung may nakaaway pa ‘ko, kasi ayaw niya ‘yung certain epiteph na sinasabi ko – but sabi ko “Under the rules I can do it.” Sabi niya, “Panget eh.” Hindi ko na siya sinagot. May choice naman tayo. ‘Yung mga reviewers mo, hindi dahil panget ‘yung pangalan mo, susuko ka na. Eh ‘yun ‘yung gusto mo ipangalan eh. Meron tayong process. 

Onggie: Ako naman curious ako, pag pinagalanan mo siya through the scientific process, mas mainam ba yun kaysa doon sa local names or common names lang? Lalo na sa halaman. 

Dr. Edwino: Well yes kasi it puts it into scientific literature. Yung common name, you can have as many common names as you want. Pwede mo i-kwento yan but it doesn’t make sense. Until the name is published in the scientific literature, that’s the only time. Hindi pwede “Doc, andami mga bagong species eh ganito ganito” pero kung hindi mo pa nasusulat, they remain as just plants in the forests. 

Until we know the name, then wala tayong ma-kukuwento on how to conserve.

Bryan: I understand Dr. Edwino yung isang scientific name pwede siyang maraming common names pero may mga examples ba kayo na dalawa sila na magkaiba na species pero isang common name lang sila. For example dito sa Philippines, may Philippine Eagle tayo. 

Dr. Edwino: It doesn’t matter. Kunwari, maraming halaman sa Pilipinas ang tawag ay Malakape kasi they all look like the coffee plant. They all belong to the family, yes. It doesn’t matter nasa atin na yan. 

Kaya kung minsan, sa hayop sinisiguro yung Philippine Eagle isa lang yan so when you use it, it’s accepted. We have attempted to do that sa Philippine Trees: Lexicon Salvosa. Ang mga halaman sa Pilipinas, iba ang mga pangalan niyan. Ang gusto ng Bureau noon ay isang common name lang. Ang tawag Official Common name. 

Ang Talisay, iba iba ang pangalan sa iba’t-ibang lugar. Yung Talisay you only use it sa Southern Tagalog. Pero ‘pag scientific name isa lang. It cannot be two or three or more. Ganon ang kuwento nyan. So hindi tayo pwede to depend entirely on common names. Pwede for conversations, pwede on site things, when report, dapat precise. It’s one and only one plant. Matagal na tong kwento na to

Onggie: Tingin ko, we get the point, mahalaga talaga we name yung plants and animals using a process na scientific and agreed upon. Pero wala po bang silbi din yung cultural or even…. Tulad ng nabanggit mo kanina, yung tangisang bayawak, ginagamit lang sa southern tagalog.. Pero tingin ko, kapag sinabi mo sa katutubo, kilala niya ang puno na ito… pag kuwento mo ung legend.

Dr. Edwino: Especially if pag nakuwento mo yung legend. Parang merong ganoon. It can be related. For me, yung folk taxonomy actually those are also the beginnings of formal taxonomy. This is what I call folk taxonomy, yung using formal names, categorizing plants, and so on.

Cultural is also useful. Mostly, locally ang uses niyan sa palagay ko kasi ang attempts natin to make common names is purely to communicate to a central office para they mean the same thing. Kasi noong una, mahirap sila gumamit ng scientific names. Ngayon, tinuturo natin sa estudyante ang scientific names because they have meaning. Pag sinabi mo tangisang bayawak, ano ba itsura noon? Pero pag sinabi mo yung scientific name ng tangisang bayawak, Ficus variegata Blume. Ah Ficus pala siya kaya ganito ang itsura niya. Pero pag tangisang bayawak. Anong klaseng puno yan?

When you say scientific names, they carry information. They carry relationship information. 

Onggie: Nagpapahiwatig parin ng interaction parin natin ng environment. And I think ung tangisang bayawak is a great example. Yung pangalan na yon, as you told it to us, kwento, may legend. It points to a common culture, a common understanding, yung bayawak saka ung tangis nya. Hindi lang sa syensa pero pati sa kultura.. 

Bryan: Yung idea na every name has its own story.. Story ng relationship, ganyan, along doon sa culture natin, we can also explore the relationship of names or naming doon sa society natin. As you know naman, names distinguish us from other people. Giving us a sense ng individuality and identity as people. Pero looking at doon sa naming ng species ng plants, and at the same time it allows yung story na yun, yung social connection na yun, belongingness. Even ecological relationship na pinag-uusapan ninyo kanina.  Whether it’s sharing the same last name with the family or in a more generic sense, how we identify ourselves. Saan part ba tayong part ng society? As scientists, as artists, Filipinos. Yung ganong klase ng association ganoon sa names.  Maasociate mo, ano itsura niya, ano kapamilya niya, sino ang kamukha niya na halaman or itsura. Yun din ang isang value ng pagpa-pangalagan ng species. For us to see the relationship noong species na yun with other things and see kung paano nagfa-function yung society through yung names na yun. 

Onggie: Yup, agree completely. Again going back doon sa example ni Dr. Edwino yung tangisang bayawak is actually a ficus variation. It means na kapamilya siya ng mga ficus so maaring kahawig sa variegata. Maganda na you understand the cultural or common name, but I think importante talaga yung na maintindihan mo rin at gamitin din yung correct taxonomic label. In fact, uso yung mga correct taxanomic label at napaguusapan yung mga variant. 

Dr. Edwino: Oo nga. Kailan lang sabi ng DOH. Ang tanging nakakaalam lang niyan ay WHO. Yung naming ng mga viruses, that’s also covered by by another scientific body. Yung formal body, the International Committee on Taxonomy of Viruses (ICTV). Yung Virus classification to taxa rules. They are laid out in a code, which is called the International Code of Virus Classification and Nomenclature. Yung mga viruses, nababasa rin yun. Jumble of names and numbers yan. Pag pinakita sayo, it doesn’t mean anything, numbers yan. Somebody with an expertise of those numbers, siya lang ang nakakaalam. Pero ang pagpapangalagan ng disease, is done by the WHO. 

Meron tayong Omicron, Delta. You cannot invent names, it’s only the WHO that has the authority to declare diseases caused by viruses. 

Iba ang WHO, iba pa ang committee on Virus Nomenclature. Very common na yun and everybody knows these diseases. 

Onggie: Mukhang may mga clear rules or hierarchy

Dr. Edwino: Ayaw nating magulo kasi kung sino sino lang, walang organization, it’s difficult to relate to things like that. Mabuti na lang may mga settlements. 

Bryan: Napag-usapan kanina rin Dr. Edwino yung mga specific na mga epithets ng pag-name ng species. Nabangit niyo kung paano ang itsura ng isang species. Pwede siyang i-name sa person, pwede doon sa mismong habitat. Siguro baka interested lang din yung mga nakikinig sa atin. Based doon sa observations, experience, baka may ma-sshare rin kayo na interesting aspects pa ng taxonomy na-observe ninyo or maybe other memorable names na species.

Dr. Edwino: Yung mga na-discover ko, recently lang din ito. Mga bago bago na lang i-discuss ko. Noong 2014, I was studying itong mga halaman sa mga mining sites. We discovered a plant that we eventually named rinorea niccolifer. It means it possesses nickel. Itong halaman na ito, na-discover namin by absorbing nickel mula sa soil hanggang doon sa dahon niya up to 1.8% per unit weight. That’s a very unique activity or character of this plant.

Not all plants will do that kasi itong heavy metal, it’s toxic to the plant. Parang hindi lahat ng nasa minahan ay tumutubo. Kaya wala nagtatanim doo kasi they die due to the toxicity of metal. 

Kaya this plant is very unique, it can accumulate much nickel in the leaves. Theoretically and potentially, there are only about 700 species throughout the world. Sa Pilipinas there’s about 25 of them. 

Pwede nating gamitin ang halaman to sustainably harvest nickel from the soil. Tanim tayo niyan tapos kunin natin yung dahon and then kunin natin yung nickel. Without bulldozing the land and wreaking havoc on the environment. So sustainable. 

Kaya may tinatawag tayong agromining. Magmimina ka at nag-aagriculture ka. That’s a unique feature. Tayo gusto natin i-protect yung environment. That’s something unique. 

Yung most recent, kasama ko si Onggie noong pumunta tayo sa Dinagat island. 2016 pa ito. Siguro nahawa ka pa ng puno na ito. 

Ang tagal tagal kong inaaral ito so we look at photographs, we look at the specimens. We only got to see it by photographs at specimen. Yung kanyang stayment ay nakaayos na parang tatluhan. It’s in the family Metastasis kamag-anak ng bayabas. Ito ang pula pula pag pumunta ka sa Quezon province. 

We eventually named this plant as tristaniopsis flexuosa. Flex so sabi nating flex your muscles. Sa Latin, bend your muscles so it means crooked. Crooked yung branches. There are only six in the Philippines or five. 

Yung mga kamag anak niya, yung mga malalaking puno. Even sa Pilipinas, malalaki siya. Maybe because of the toxicity of the metals and nasa taas kaya laging nahahanginan. Those are the main unique discoveries natin.

Pinaka una na very excited ako. Nakita ko siya sa botanical garden sa UP Los Baños. Nakolekta raw siya sa Bicol National Park. So pumunta ako diyan. Indeed it’s there and I named it pinanga bicolana. From Bicol. Maganda rin itong story that is related to names. 

We can go on and on. Maraming examples. It’s always very interesting.

Bryan: Actually very interesting nga. Na-iimagine ko kung ako yung estudyante ninyo sa taxonomy tapos may question about doon sa nag-aacumulate na nickel tapos yung name Nickel hyperaccumulation, madali siya ma-associate. 

So thank you Dr. Edwino sa pag-describe at sa pag kwento ng species. Very interesting yung pag-kukwento doon sa rinorea niccolifer kasi isa yung way to revive yung land na maraming nickel sa mining. 

I think that’s also poetic in a sense. Naalala ko lang din yung quote ni Jane Goodall sa recent interview niya. Sabi niya “Everytime one species disappears from an area, it’s like pulling thread from that tapestry. As you pull more and more threads, the tapestry gets weaker and you get the ecosystem collapse.” 

Dr. Edwino: Meron mas modern na application. Kunwari eroplano, alisin natin isang turnilyo, okay lang. Dalawa, okay lang din. But if we continue, removing all those turnilyo, babagsak na yung eroplano. 

Yeah, ecosystems are very fragile. Kaya nga decade of ecosystem restoration tayo ngayon. And it’s not done by simply planting trees. Medyo complicated ang issues and I know the Forest Foundation Philippines is doing a lot more better ways of going into this. Complicated ito at kailangan natin itong gawin. Nobody’s going to do it. 

Bryan: Kaya super interesting noong story ng rinorea niccolifer kasi that’s also one way of rehabilitating yung land.

Onggie: Oo nga. Sabi ni Dr. Edwino na baka yan ang pathway dapat natin. 

Dr. Edwino: As we try to address climate change, sabi electric vehicles na lang tayo pero pag gagawa ka ng electric vehicles, kailangan mo ng metals. Kailangan mo ng nickel to develop batteries. So saan mo kukunin yan? Dito sa Pilipinas so magsisira nanaman tayo ng gubat to get again the nickel. 

So it’s a circular problem. Ang pinaguusapan ngayon: nature based solutions. Yan na nga dapat ang patutuhunan natin. 

Matagal na matagal pa ang Forest Foundation Philippines dito sa mga problema natin kaya kailangan natin ang Foundation addressing these issues kasi gagawa ng battery, electric vehicles. Saan kukuha yung nickel para andarin yung sasakyan para magkaroon ng battery. Kaya baka nasa rinorea niccolifer ang sagot. Harvest na natin yung mga dahon, ilagay na natin sa gasolina. 

In fact noong na-discover namin yan, meron nag-email sa akin. Sabi niya “Dr. Fernando, perhaps we can feed our rockets with leaves from your plant.” Metal nga naman. 

Sure enough, you can always find potential solutions to our problems from nature. 

Bryan: Kaya equally important din yung taxonomists na tulad mo Dr. Edwino to make yung way ng scientific discoveries sa policies, sa implemenations ng mga projects and programs. 

Onggie: Maraming salamat po ulit Dr. Edwino for another engaging conversation. 

Dr. Edwino: Parang nag-meeting lang tayo sa labas ng ball. Parang sa labas lang tayo naguusap. 

Onggie: Another afternoon of learning from me. Tuwing kasama ko si Dr. Edwino, natututo ako ng natututo. 

Dr. Edwino: Maraming salamat Onggie! Maraming salamat Bryan! 

Bryan: Maraming salamat Dr. Edwino.  Ito talaga yung sobrang nakaka-excite dito, how much we’re learning from our guests. Before we move to the next part, let’s listen to Rorschach Blots by The Ridleys. The band is composed of four members: Benny Manaligod, Jan De Vera, Joric Canlas, and Bryant Ayes.

Bryan: Thank you The Ridleys for that song! As we continue our discussion about names, naalala ko yung nabangit ni Dr. Edwino about describing through names. Actually Onggie, sobrang striking for me yung number 1: mga “epithets” kasi ang daming ways na you get to really describe yung species pero other than that, yung relationship at yung story noong naming ng species na yun sa in relation doon sa culture natin.

I think we have a lot of stories in place. Kahit nasa cities tayo, kung paano natin na-eencounter yung mga pangalan ng species. Minsan, dinadaanan natin or minsan, nababangit na lang natin sa mga conversations pero I’m really glad na napagusapan natin yung mas malalim na background kung bakit important na alam natin yung pangalan noong mga species na nakikita natin. 

Onggie: Agree, I think yung species names are important and primarily because as we derive a lot more solutions from nature, as we work towards protecting nature, we have to know which plants to use, which animals go along with each plant. 

Also, get information from all of these. I agree with Dr. Edwino. In the names, coded doon yung name and you get information doon sa name. 

I’m sure gusto rin ito ni Dr. Edwino, we’ve had many conversations about this as well. Yung memory ng plants and animals, find its way to spaces and places that we have here in the Philippines. 

Yung Makati, kwento sa akin ni Dr. Perry. Sabi niya “damo yan, yung Makati” kasi makati. Kaya Makati ang tawag diyan. Yung Kamuning comes from a small flowering tree, where I used to live. I think it’s both ways. We derive information from scientific names, but at the same time, I think yung plants and animals na ito, also contribute doon sa cultural memory natin of spaces and places. 

Bryan: I agree Onggie regarding doon sa insight na yan kasi how we associate rin yung names and places na yun, it goes both ways. For instance, nabangit mo doon sa Makati. Sa Maynila naman, from the flowering word na Mangrove na abundant noon sa Pasig river. Tapos, we also have Antipolo, named from Tipolo tree. I’m not sure yung mga Antipolo kung nakikita pa rin nila yun doon. 

Isang example rin, Talisay. Isang native tree rin sa atin na throughout the Philippines. We have several cities and places named after this tree. Talisay doon sa Batangas, may Talisay din sa Cebu, sa Camarines Norte, and then may Talisay din sa Negros Occidental. Kahit yung mga name ng streets, hindi lang doon sa cities.  

I guess yung pangalan din noong mga species na ito, mga puno, mga halaman, also serves as cultural landmarks din ng mga lugar kung saan tayo. For sure, hindi lang ito sa Pilipinas, nasa ibang bansa rin. For sure ganito rin ang relationship noong names ng species at names ng places nila, but I guess yung nuances nila nasa stories. Na-embedded at coded doon sa context natin. 

Onggie: While I agree with you Bry, para sa akin, hindi lang siya nostalgia. May sadness din nararamdaman. If you observe now, yung mga places na dati nakapangalan doon sa mga species na ito. Halimba yung Kamuning, wala naman ng Kamuning or Kamias, this is another part of Quezon City. Dati noon, literally marami Kamias diyan pero ngayon wala na. Na-road widening na sila.

Dati indicator yun na maraming species doon. Dati doon makikita yung Talisay sa Batangas, but mukhang pawala na ito ngayon. Habang tumatagal, I think may danger na makakalimutan natin itong perspective na ito. Where yung natural history noong place contributed to yung naming niya at yung relationship noong place na ito sa species that were abundant will most likely be lost. 

Bryan: Actually, hindi ko sure kasi lumaki rin ako sa siyudad. Hindi ko rin siguro kilala lahat ng mga puno noong mga panahon na yun pero hindi rin ako ganoon ka familiar pa sa Tipolo trees, Kamias, iba pang native species pero naalala ko growing up, pinaka marami sa amin sa Valenzuela ay Talisay na puno. 

I’m wondering kung halimbawa, sa Manila nakuha nga yung pangalan doon. Nakakalungkot lang din na ganoon pero I think it’s very important to really have this kind of conversation kung ano yung natural history noong place at kung paano siguro tayo mabubuhay at mag-mumove forward given na alam natin ito. 

Napagusapan natin doon sa rinorea niccolifera, magkakaroon ba tayo ng sort of effort to live on yung cultural heritage. For instance, yung Nilad sa Manila, or ng Tiplo doon sa Antipolo. I guess those are some of the things na baka okay din pag-isipan kasi maari natin pag-usapan ito ngayon pero iba pa rin kasi kapag nakikita natin lalo na mga kabataan na mas ma-dedescribe natin sa kanila. Mas natututo sila sa importance not just yung puno, not just yung area nila but yung ecological relationship noong place kung saan sila nakatira at yung species kung saan makikita nila. 

Onggie: In fact, para sa akin, mas malala na ngayon kasi if you think about it, marami na rin tayong words nawawala. Words in particular na linked sa nature or linked sa halaman or sa hayop. One of the authors we both read, si Robert Macfarlane. In his book, Landmarks and his other book Lost Words, chronicle yan. Linista niya yung nawawala na mga libro sa UK. Dati nandoon sa Oxford Junior Dictionary nila, but ngayon pinapatangal na. Sa kanila halimbawa, tinangal na yung words na ash, fern, kingfisher, acorn. Wala na yun sa Junior Dictionary nila. Kasi hindi na masyadong ginagamit at ang pumalit, ironically, new words: blog, chat room, mp3 player, at isa sa mga favorite ko: celebrities. Yun na yung nakalagay, wala na yung dating nakikita nila or mas na-oobserve nila.

Tinanong ito ni Robert Macfarlane doon sa gumagawa ng Oxford Junior Dictionary at one of the explanations was that hindi na ito hinahanap. Hindi ito sinesearch. When kids look for words, ang hinahanap nila ay chatroom, ano yung blog. Hindi nila tinatanong ano yung ash, ano yung fern, ano yung acorn. Para sa kanya, lost words na yun. Not just of that particular word, but it may indicate lost of that species as well. 

Bryan: Sa mga discourse ng mga species, pagconserve ng mga species, meron tayong mga classifications din na for sure na ma-didiscuss din ni Dr. Fernando kung mas mahaba pa yung oras natin, but yung mga critically endangered, mga endangered na species, ganyang classifications. 

I guess same is also happening sa words natin so baka meron din critically endangered words natin na related doon sa nature na yun nga. Yun ang isa sa mga manifestation na matatangal sa listahan ng words sa dictionary and sa mga nakikinig sa atin ngayon. 

If you search yung words na crane, animal tapos pag you search web na poproduce ng spiders, ang lalabas talaga agad sa google search images yung crane as in yung mga machines. Or yung web na is in internet yung lalabas as in yung world wide web.

We’re kind of losing this kind of connection as we lose yung meanings ng words. We understand naman na nag-eevolve yung language pero I think kung ang kapalit ang pag evolve ng language na yun ay lose yung meaning na connected doon sa natural world natin. I guess medyo nakaka-bother lang siya lalo na para doon sa kabataan natin ngayon na laging nasa internet natin ngayon. Madali lang ang access ang information and all. I think that’s something na kailangan natin ng mas na pagisipan.

Onggie: Good point Bryan! Baka yung loss of words because ang ginagamit ay more internet based na probably or newer languages based on cultural advancement. Baka ang solusyon din can be through yung lens of social media, through the lens of the internet, and baka doon natin mabuhay yun or ma-keep in mind, ma-keep in sight, or ma-keep in heart ng mga species na ito. 

Bryan: Tama Onggie. Actually, right now with online learning, pandemya pa rin tayo, and all the virtual activities, hindi rin lahat makakalabas. We can take advantage doon sa virtual space, perhaps we can reclaim yung names ng species na nabangit natin doon sa lost words. Maybe we can maximize yung digital space and since it’s a more democratic and accessible ng learning. 

Onggie: Agree. Even us sa Forest Foundation, we’ve given this some thought and maybe we can talk a bit about this.

Bryan: Alright. Since we’re talking about things sa digital space and social media and yung experience nila sa Foundation nila. How we communicate yung conservation so let me introduce another guest, our very own Schen, our Communications officer. Hello Schen.

Schenley: Hi Bryan and Onggie.

Onggie: Hi Schen. Schen is our Communications Officer sa Forest Foundation Philippines and I agree that she would be the perfect person to lead us through this discussion about language, communication of not just words, but of nature. Represented through words and names, but now online and on social media. 

Bryan: Sige Schen. Can you tell us more about your work sa Foundation? Also about doon sa language ng advocacy natin and how we communicate the works that we do sa Foundation. Also your insights on how do we communicate yung aspects ng nature sa digital age. 

Schenley: Sige, thanks Bryan. Hi I’m Schenley Belmonte, you can call me Schen. I’m Forest Foundation’s Communications Officer. Sa Foundation, we mainly communicate our work through our social media channels. Kasi may pandemic and it’s a cost efficient way to talk about and magnify our work in advocacy. 

On our social media channels, we aim to energize and expand conversations about forest protection and conservation and encourage individuals and organizations to apply for a Forest Foundation Grant. 

Our content revolves around these themes so number 1: we have the #ForestFeatures and #ForestFriday where we talk about landscapes or the importance of protecting and conserving the country’s most critical landscape and the projects that we implement and support in partnership with our grantees. 

Because forest protection and conservation isn’t just about trees, we work with people, we protect wildlife, we support sustainable livelihoods, we work with communities so we try our best to be mindful about this. 

Of course, we also have #TreeviaOfTheDay where we feature native trees and some information about them. We have featured places named after trees like yung pinagkkwentuhan ninyo kanina. Trees that have medicinal value, trees that are culturally important, trees from natural parks, new species discovered among others. We usually feature photo of the tree and we include yung scientific common names and some information about the tree.

We also other seasonal content, but itong dalawa na itong main space kasi ito talaga yung nagpapatungkol sa work ng foundation. 

Onggie: I think one of the highlights, for me in our social media, is our feature on Philippine Native Trees. Ano yung response ng ating mga readers doon sa post on Philippine Native Trees?

Schenley: People have a range of responses actually. Whenever we post yung #TreeviaOfTheDay content natin, we can see a lot of people are surprised so ito ang nagsasabi ng “wow may ganyan pala tayong puno” or “parang ngayon ko lang nalaman yung lugar namin ay named after a tree”. Meron din interested to know more about yung tree, parang may ganyan palang medicinal value, saan mahahanap. 

And meron din ito, na medyo interesting, meron nalulungkot so nag-surface ito when we posted about a new species discovery in ​​Mount Mantalingahan. Yung medinilla simplicymosa. Parang merong excited kasi may bagong species na-discover, pero meron din na sad kasi baka raw makuha ng poachers. Pero on the opposite end naman, if hindi natin siya papangalanan or if hindi papakilala, hindi rin malalaman ng mga tao yung importance noong species diba. So challenging na question siya.

Meron din na curious so sila yung mag-sesend ng photos. Parang papa-identify nila “ito ba yan na nasa garden ko?” “ito ba yan na nakita ko dito sa may amin noong naglalakad ako” So very interesting yung range ng reactions. From our Facebook friends so whenever we post something, medyo mahirap i-gauge kung malulungkot ba, ma-sasad, ma-eexcite. 

I think very interesting na mataas yung interest whenever we post about Native Trees kasi ibig sabihin maraming interesado na makilala yung mga puno natin. 

Bryan: Actually interesting din Schen yung nabangit mo na mga reaction kasi diba sometimes sa social media, popost lang tayo tapos minsan wala masyadong engagements or interactions, but it shows na yung iba nag-sesend ng photo, nagpapatingin kung yun talaga yung similar species ba sila or magkapareho ba sila. 

I think that’s interesting engagement doon sa audience natin and I think it shows din kung gaano kasigasig din or tutok ‘yung mga tao. We just need to provide yung platform for them to learn more about doon sa species. I think most of the content noon, Schen, ay galing doon sa Philippine Native Trees 303, 202, and 101 book. Tama?

Schenley: Yes, oo. Mostly doon galing kasi ‘yung book na yun, maganda siyang reference para makilala ‘yung Native Trees natin so aside from yung information about yung scientific information about the trees, meron din mga kwento noong mga tao about the trees. Kung ano ‘yung meaning na to para sa kanila, may special memory itong tree na to para sa kanila. So very personal din siya. 

Bryan: Pinaguusapan din namin kanina yung concept noong vanishing language, yung mga aspect words na hindi na masyado pinaguusapan or napapalitan ng meanings na hindi ganoon ka related sa nature. 

As Communications practitioner, ano yung tigin mo sa kung paano natin masisiguro na nature language or words, specifically sa context natin dito sa Philippines, will help siguro to keep alive and save yung remaining forest and plant species natin?

Schenley: Thanks Bryan. So “Stephen Krashen” sinabi niya na “we learn a language by understanding what you said” so in this view, we remember words when we have meaningful interactions with them. I think it’s important for us not to just introduce yung pangalan ng mga puno or itong mga bagong words na ito, ito mga bagong species, but to also share why these trees are important and to provide an opportunity for people to build a relationship with these trees with these names. Para hindi lang sila pangalan diba. Mag-go beyond siya doon sa pagpapangalan lang. 

For us, at Forest Foundation, we try to expose people to these words so these species through our #TreeviaOfTheDay posts. Second we also support yung publications and researches to generate information about the trees kasi sympre if interested na sila, they would want to know more about the tree. And third, we tell stories about the tree para hindi lang siya pangalan so we feature the conservation work of our grantees and partners. ‘Yung livelihood products na-dederive ng communities from these trees. We also talk about the importance of Native Trees in forest protection and conservation because these trees or itong mga pangalan na ito hindi lang siya basta trees or names kasi they are also symbols of heritages, sources of livelihoods, pillars of ecosystems services home to wildlife among others. 

And lastly, although challenging siya ngayon because of pandemic, I think for quite awhile, we tried our best to provide spaces for meaningful interactions through events like conferences, mga tree walks para papakilala natin yung puno, mahawakan nila yung puno, maamoy nila yung puno minsan.  So people can have yung opportunity to get to know these trees in a more meaningful way. 

Onggie: Well said Schen. It brings home yung point nitong podcast ngayon. Yung importance ng names both in science and also in culture. Both are important yung scientific nomenclature is important and yung cultural place memory names are also important. If we put equal emphasis on both, we stand a better chance at conserving these plants and animals as well as places that we want to keep for future generations. 

Bryan: Maraming salamat ulit kay Schen at Dr. Edwino para sa very insightful na episode natin ng Gubatbp. podcast. 

Onggie, I like how nag-start tayo doon sa idea noong taxonomy as a scientific aspect mismo ng taxonomy. Sobrang natutuwa ako na marinig ulit yung insights ni Dr. Edwino. Nakita ko yung mga fieldnotes niya na nandoon pa yung initial notes niya at super interesting na based on these initial notes, na-publish niya sa paper yung species na ‘yun, so really interesting. 

Also yung importance ng precision ng names sa pag describe niya as a species, but also ‘yung connection noon scientific aspect na yun sa cultural aspect naman ng places. On how we live doon sa places na yun and how we relate and connect sa certain species. 

Interesting din for me kung paano din na-connect ni Schen doon sa digital space at kung paano mag-lilive by yung nature words. Paano tayo mas makakapag-engage ng conversations na – yes important ‘yung work na ginagawa ng mga taxonomists, ng ating mga researchers. Yes – important ang mga ginagawa ng organizations na may mga projects na nag-coconserve ng mga species na ito. 

Very interesting din sa akin yung idea na rinorea niccolifera na I guess, Onggie, sobrang poetic noon for me. Degraded yung landscape pero yung isang way din for it to be rehabilitated ay through the species na ito. How lively to imagine yung ganoong setting sa isang post-apocalyptic movie siguro. Kakanood ko ito ng sci-fi movies noong break.

But yeah, this is a very important conversation na maganda napagusapan natin. Yung mga nakikinig sa atin, may they also find yung relevance and yung resonance by just looking lang din doon sa labas nila. Doon sa kinalakihan nila. Ano ba yung mga natural heritage doon ng mga puno na before nadadaanan lang or ano ba yung mga wala na tingin natin maganda i-revive. Ano yung mga meanings sa atin ng species na tingin natin na, personally, medyo hindi na natin nakikita or nawala na or pwede rin nating i-rehabilitate kung paguusapan natin yung decade of ecological restoration.

And with that being said, we need to continue having conversations  about native species, and continue describing them, showing pictures online, establishing relationships. Otherwise these names will just be names, streets, and cities. Mawawala yung relationship between a place’s name and the species, and maybe we’ll lose a bit of ourselves too as we forget about these. And that is something we would definitely want to avoid.

Read more of Dr. Edwino’s publications on the resources page and feel free to reach out to Schen via email at sabelmonte@forestfoundation.ph and through Forest Foundation’s social media accounts. A special thank you to The Ridleys as well – The Ridleys is an alternative folk band that evokes storytelling covering mainly the Filipino way of life as well as different kinds of love, including romantic, brotherly, familial, and sacrificial.

As complementary materials to this episode, check out our interactive map and the rest of the materials available in our resources page at gubatbp.forestfoundation.ph

Thank you again to our guests for sharing your stories and insights with us. We hope you enjoyed listening to this episode and you can also check out our previous posts for more of these.